Roundtable Video
How is GTM Hiring Changing?
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Transcript
Krissy Manzano: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Blueprint Round Table today. I’m your host, Krissy Manzano, and I have with me, Chuck Brotman and Matt Lewers. We’re gonna be talking about something really relevant, as always, but even more intensely around how go-to-market hiring has been changing. So, Chuck, you wanna kick us off?
Chuck Brotman: Yeah, definitely. So. Obviously, there, you know, are always changes in the way that companies are thinking about hiring for, we’re talking about go-to-market sales, marketing, and customer success roles over the last few months, I think we’ve all seen, you know, two big changes in, in hiring across go to market.
Chuck Brotman: The, those factors being number one, the change in the economy and the growing specter of inflation leading to higher interest rates, which have changed the present value of money in a fashion that is causing companies to be more cautious about growth, more cautious about operating expenses in general.
Chuck Brotman: And so we’ve had this you know, leading to layoffs across, you know, the tech hiring landscape or the tech company landscape, I should say. We’re, you know, on, on top of this. We’re now seeing, you know, a lot of interest and innovation in the world of AI. And I think at some levels, you know, AI itself, both the actual, you know, changes you know, coming through AI and also, a lot of, you know, sort of interest in companies in how they can use AI perhaps as an alternative to, you know, human beings to do traditional work they’ve done, have kind of added to the way that GTM hiring is changing. So when you look at AI trends, when you look at the economic landscape, I think in general we’re seeing companies hire more slowly.
Chuck Brotman: There’s more focus on ensuring that each hire is made right. I think we’re also seeing companies move away from, you know, the sort of growth at all costs notion of, you know, hiring classes and lots of people, even implicitly, you know, hiring multiple people, sort of recognizing that like it could create some competitive pressures and bring out the best from everyone and perhaps, you know, yield some redundancy.
Chuck Brotman: So if certain people are not executing well, they can be let go. Even that has changed now when companies are really kind of hiring more on, on a one at a time basis for very well-defined recs across sales marketing and CS. So that’s what I feel like I’m seeing. Matt, I’m curious about your point of view on this.
Matt Lewers: Yeah I agree with everything you said. I think we’re, it really kind of impacts where the rubber meets the road for us and for candidates right now is a couple of different areas. One, I do think that hiring managers are looking for the top end of their profile. So if a job description, for example, says five to eight years, they’re really looking for closer to eight. And the nice-to-haves have bled into the must-haves because there, you know, there is this feeling of a plethora of talent being available due to quite a few layoffs. So I think it’s getting a little bit tougher for candidates that meet 90% of the requirements, but don’t quite meet a hundred percent of requirements which may not be a bad thing longer term.
Matt Lewers: Right. But it is a big, pretty big shift, and I’m hearing that fairly consistently from candidates in and outside of our network. The other thing that I’m noticing, and this is probably based on our subset of clients in our ICP, but it seems like there’s a big push to not necessarily return to office as much as individuals are looking for clusters of employees, whether it’s New York City or LA or San Francisco or Chicago, for example. Even if they don’t have an office, they wanna hire individuals there so that there is almost like a micro-dynamic within the organization, especially go-to-market motions where you’ve got CSMs and AEs all in the same city.
Matt Lewers: And you know, that way, it’s much more cost-effective to do weekly or biweekly meetups in an organization. So that’s a trend that I’m trying to keep my eye on because it comes up a lot when I speak with candidates that don’t limit some of these major metros, whereas before, they may have been a great fit for quite a few roles.
Matt Lewers: I think their pool may be shrinking based on companies not fully gravitating away from remote, but moving away from fully dispersed and now focusing in strategic key areas based on whatever they need at that point in time.
Chuck Brotman: A good call out. I think, I actually Krissy, I turned over you after this, but I think one of the things that, that I’ve seen that’s been actually kind of healthy and constructive in hiring is that companies are being pretty thoughtful about where they want to locate their GTM hires and why we’re not seeing that.
Chuck Brotman: Many companies ask people to be in the office every day of the week, sort of nine to five, I think a lot of those concepts have faded. I think a lot of hiring managers recognize and respect and appreciate for themselves the value of, you know, flexible work arrangements, but people, you know, philosophies on where they want talent more often than not these days, there can be a location or office component to it. And in this context where, you know, hiring is being done more judiciously, often more slowly, sometimes too slowly, sometimes responsibly, so, location is taking on more of a factor. And I think, it’s something that talent should be mindful of, right? And Krissy, what are your thoughts on that?
Krissy Manzano: Well, I agree with everything you all said, but I, you know, and I also think what I feel that we’re seeing, having been in, you know, we’ve been on the hiring side of course, so we understand, you know, during all the years that hiring was, you know, happening with startups, those trends.
Krissy Manzano: But then on the recruiting side, we were a part of it when it collapsed, then went nuts, and then started collapsing a little bit, right? Restructuring itself and one of the changes is people, several wanting very senior enterprise-type folks on the go-to-market, right? Versus, you know, wanting an SDR or a group, a class of SDRs, right?
Krissy Manzano: So I think those are things that we’re seeing from a change perspective and people wanting them to be very specialized. I see a big push in a lot of companies trying to, you know, really kind of either cross the line or dance on the line of you’ve gotta have industry. Yes. And so where that was kind of being pushed away.
Krissy Manzano: So I see some of that coming back a little bit, but I’m curious in hearing everything you all were saying, are these types of changes or that we’re all seeing, do you think that they’re relatively good and will be impactful over time? Or is this just another reactive emotional situation where, because the market changed companies, you know, making decisions and plans that are around fear versus actual reality and data and what’s needed to drive outcomes?
Chuck Brotman: I think it’s a mix of all of that and depends, you know, company by company; I mean certainly it’s hard to fall organizations, you know, pumping the brakes a bit on hiring in a context where there’s more uncertainty about their ability to, if they’re a, you know, a VC back company, their ability to raise more capital like it, you know, of course, these companies need to watch their burn rate and focus on growing more responsibly and minimizing so they can sustain themselves, right?
Chuck Brotman: So I think a lot of that is understandable. You know, and to your point, I mean, we, I feel like we have seen some changes here in, in general, right? That the companies that are doing things well are putting together plans, you know, moving forward on the key hires they need and being thoughtful about what they’re looking for without over-indexing on, you know, pedigree background in a way that, or you know, what I’ve called proof of interest hiring, where they get too focused on, you know, those who you know, can flatter the hiring managers and get to the front of the line.
Chuck Brotman: Right? The best companies are just really looking for what are the skills and behaviors that are needed. What does success look like? And moving forward, you know, expeditiously on those hires. But to your point, I mean, there are many organizations that are getting more indecisive, right?
Chuck Brotman: You know, shifting gears constantly on hiring based on the last conversation they had. And letting, you know, fear drives things, and that’s never a good thing, right? And that’s the kind of thing that not only impacts your hiring but can also impact your existing team when they see you operating that way.
Chuck Brotman: Lewers?
Matt Lewers: Yeah. Yeah. I think from a candidate’s perspective, too, on this, I think it’s probably. For the better, at least for the near term, in the sense that there is some hesitancy for some candidates to move now because first in, first out, right? If something goes wrong. So I think between that and the high number of job moves or jumps, even micro promotions that people were experiencing the last three years post Covid. It used to be acceptable. Somebody’s jumped jobs twice in the last year. Well, let’s just blame it to a layoffs or let’s blame it to COVID. Covid impacted a year ago. And now it’s, you know, it’s a layoff. I, at least from the hiring managers that I talked to, the appearance for me at least, or the takeaway is some of that happiness is now, you know, is disqualifying candidates before they even get a conversation.
Matt Lewers: I want somebody that’s been in an enterprise role at the same org for two years, or I want somebody who’s had four plus years of enterprise experience where, you know, if you go dig around out there, there’s a lot of individuals that in 2019 or 2020 were just at a college in an SDR. Now they’ve got enterprise sales on their LinkedIn, and that the enterprise can mean a lot of different things for a lot of different companies based on stage and size, and growth.
Matt Lewers: But at the end of the day, those same candidates now probably aren’t gonna be looked at as heavily as they would’ve like a year ago. And I think people being candidates, a little bit more cognizant of time and seat, will probably benefit them later on because, you know, if you’ve jumped three times in the last year and a half to three years even, that’s gonna start looking bad, especially four to five years from now, maybe. When people kind of forget about the Covid hiccup in the wild run that there was for about a year and a half. it’s not gonna be as, it’s not gonna be as favorable probably so.
Chuck Brotman: Yeah. I mean, it’s a, and perhaps a topic for another round table Krissy, in terms of, you know, the discussion of happiness. I, one thing that’s interesting, I was thinking about when you were going through that, is how often, I mean, there’s a lot of people. would like to suggest that, you know, job seekers today are not looking for long term that like, you know, happiness is the new normal and that, you know, job seekers are treating new roles almost as if they’re freelancers, right?
Chuck Brotman: So they’ll sort of take on the work, you know, along with their side hustles as long as it’s convenient. I’ve been surprised at how often new job seekers continue to tell me that, you know, stability is number one in their list in terms of their next new role. I, you know, and I often, you know, I often have talked about how it’s a mistake to equate stability with a large company because many large companies have, you know, been the least stable places for hires.
Chuck Brotman: You know, the layoffs we’ve seen across big co. But they’ve also impacted small co. And I think that the fact that so much talent is looking, craving stability, going back, Krissy, to your question, And I think it’s a mistake to assume that everybody is just in job hopper mode, right? A lot of people, you know, are, you know, anxious and uncertain about the future, about the economy, about trends in AI that might take away jobs.
Chuck Brotman: And so to the extent that companies can really be thoughtful about their plans, what success will look like, you know, what their burn rates and runway rate look like, you know, not to, again, to make people complacent, but really give them a sense that any hiring that they’re doing right it’s very thoughtful and that it’s with, you know, a midterm long-term orientation.
Chuck Brotman: It’s what talent’s looking for.
Show Summary
If you’re interested in the business world, you’ve probably heard of “Go-to-Market” (GTM) hiring. With technology constantly advancing, the way companies approach GTM hiring is changing like never before.
In this episode of the Blueprint Roundtable, we dive deep into this topic, discussing how companies are now requiring more specialized skills for each role as they continue to expand and multiply by the thousands.
But why are these changes happening? What are the benefits and drawbacks of this approach? Tune in to find out! Whether you’re a business owner, a job seeker, or just curious about the future of hiring practices, this episode is not to be missed.
Your Title Goes Here
Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings.
Transcript
Krissy Manzano: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Blueprint Round Table today. I’m your host, Krissy Manzano, and I have with me, Chuck Brotman and Matt Lewers. We’re gonna be talking about something really relevant, as always, but even more intensely around how go-to-market hiring has been changing. So, Chuck, you wanna kick us off?
Chuck Brotman: Yeah, definitely. So. Obviously, there, you know, are always changes in the way that companies are thinking about hiring for, we’re talking about go-to-market sales, marketing, and customer success roles over the last few months, I think we’ve all seen, you know, two big changes in, in hiring across go to market.
Chuck Brotman: The, those factors being number one, the change in the economy and the growing specter of inflation leading to higher interest rates, which have changed the present value of money in a fashion that is causing companies to be more cautious about growth, more cautious about operating expenses in general.
Chuck Brotman: And so we’ve had this you know, leading to layoffs across, you know, the tech hiring landscape or the tech company landscape, I should say. We’re, you know, on, on top of this. We’re now seeing, you know, a lot of interest and innovation in the world of AI. And I think at some levels, you know, AI itself, both the actual, you know, changes you know, coming through AI and also, a lot of, you know, sort of interest in companies in how they can use AI perhaps as an alternative to, you know, human beings to do traditional work they’ve done, have kind of added to the way that GTM hiring is changing. So when you look at AI trends, when you look at the economic landscape, I think in general we’re seeing companies hire more slowly.
Chuck Brotman: There’s more focus on ensuring that each hire is made right. I think we’re also seeing companies move away from, you know, the sort of growth at all costs notion of, you know, hiring classes and lots of people, even implicitly, you know, hiring multiple people, sort of recognizing that like it could create some competitive pressures and bring out the best from everyone and perhaps, you know, yield some redundancy.
Chuck Brotman: So if certain people are not executing well, they can be let go. Even that has changed now when companies are really kind of hiring more on, on a one at a time basis for very well-defined recs across sales marketing and CS. So that’s what I feel like I’m seeing. Matt, I’m curious about your point of view on this.
Matt Lewers: Yeah I agree with everything you said. I think we’re, it really kind of impacts where the rubber meets the road for us and for candidates right now is a couple of different areas. One, I do think that hiring managers are looking for the top end of their profile. So if a job description, for example, says five to eight years, they’re really looking for closer to eight. And the nice-to-haves have bled into the must-haves because there, you know, there is this feeling of a plethora of talent being available due to quite a few layoffs. So I think it’s getting a little bit tougher for candidates that meet 90% of the requirements, but don’t quite meet a hundred percent of requirements which may not be a bad thing longer term.
Matt Lewers: Right. But it is a big, pretty big shift, and I’m hearing that fairly consistently from candidates in and outside of our network. The other thing that I’m noticing, and this is probably based on our subset of clients in our ICP, but it seems like there’s a big push to not necessarily return to office as much as individuals are looking for clusters of employees, whether it’s New York City or LA or San Francisco or Chicago, for example. Even if they don’t have an office, they wanna hire individuals there so that there is almost like a micro-dynamic within the organization, especially go-to-market motions where you’ve got CSMs and AEs all in the same city.
Matt Lewers: And you know, that way, it’s much more cost-effective to do weekly or biweekly meetups in an organization. So that’s a trend that I’m trying to keep my eye on because it comes up a lot when I speak with candidates that don’t limit some of these major metros, whereas before, they may have been a great fit for quite a few roles.
Matt Lewers: I think their pool may be shrinking based on companies not fully gravitating away from remote, but moving away from fully dispersed and now focusing in strategic key areas based on whatever they need at that point in time.
Chuck Brotman: A good call out. I think, I actually Krissy, I turned over you after this, but I think one of the things that, that I’ve seen that’s been actually kind of healthy and constructive in hiring is that companies are being pretty thoughtful about where they want to locate their GTM hires and why we’re not seeing that.
Chuck Brotman: Many companies ask people to be in the office every day of the week, sort of nine to five, I think a lot of those concepts have faded. I think a lot of hiring managers recognize and respect and appreciate for themselves the value of, you know, flexible work arrangements, but people, you know, philosophies on where they want talent more often than not these days, there can be a location or office component to it. And in this context where, you know, hiring is being done more judiciously, often more slowly, sometimes too slowly, sometimes responsibly, so, location is taking on more of a factor. And I think, it’s something that talent should be mindful of, right? And Krissy, what are your thoughts on that?
Krissy Manzano: Well, I agree with everything you all said, but I, you know, and I also think what I feel that we’re seeing, having been in, you know, we’ve been on the hiring side of course, so we understand, you know, during all the years that hiring was, you know, happening with startups, those trends.
Krissy Manzano: But then on the recruiting side, we were a part of it when it collapsed, then went nuts, and then started collapsing a little bit, right? Restructuring itself and one of the changes is people, several wanting very senior enterprise-type folks on the go-to-market, right? Versus, you know, wanting an SDR or a group, a class of SDRs, right?
Krissy Manzano: So I think those are things that we’re seeing from a change perspective and people wanting them to be very specialized. I see a big push in a lot of companies trying to, you know, really kind of either cross the line or dance on the line of you’ve gotta have industry. Yes. And so where that was kind of being pushed away.
Krissy Manzano: So I see some of that coming back a little bit, but I’m curious in hearing everything you all were saying, are these types of changes or that we’re all seeing, do you think that they’re relatively good and will be impactful over time? Or is this just another reactive emotional situation where, because the market changed companies, you know, making decisions and plans that are around fear versus actual reality and data and what’s needed to drive outcomes?
Chuck Brotman: I think it’s a mix of all of that and depends, you know, company by company; I mean certainly it’s hard to fall organizations, you know, pumping the brakes a bit on hiring in a context where there’s more uncertainty about their ability to, if they’re a, you know, a VC back company, their ability to raise more capital like it, you know, of course, these companies need to watch their burn rate and focus on growing more responsibly and minimizing so they can sustain themselves, right?
Chuck Brotman: So I think a lot of that is understandable. You know, and to your point, I mean, we, I feel like we have seen some changes here in, in general, right? That the companies that are doing things well are putting together plans, you know, moving forward on the key hires they need and being thoughtful about what they’re looking for without over-indexing on, you know, pedigree background in a way that, or you know, what I’ve called proof of interest hiring, where they get too focused on, you know, those who you know, can flatter the hiring managers and get to the front of the line.
Chuck Brotman: Right? The best companies are just really looking for what are the skills and behaviors that are needed. What does success look like? And moving forward, you know, expeditiously on those hires. But to your point, I mean, there are many organizations that are getting more indecisive, right?
Chuck Brotman: You know, shifting gears constantly on hiring based on the last conversation they had. And letting, you know, fear drives things, and that’s never a good thing, right? And that’s the kind of thing that not only impacts your hiring but can also impact your existing team when they see you operating that way.
Chuck Brotman: Lewers?
Matt Lewers: Yeah. Yeah. I think from a candidate’s perspective, too, on this, I think it’s probably. For the better, at least for the near term, in the sense that there is some hesitancy for some candidates to move now because first in, first out, right? If something goes wrong. So I think between that and the high number of job moves or jumps, even micro promotions that people were experiencing the last three years post Covid. It used to be acceptable. Somebody’s jumped jobs twice in the last year. Well, let’s just blame it to a layoffs or let’s blame it to COVID. Covid impacted a year ago. And now it’s, you know, it’s a layoff. I, at least from the hiring managers that I talked to, the appearance for me at least, or the takeaway is some of that happiness is now, you know, is disqualifying candidates before they even get a conversation.
Matt Lewers: I want somebody that’s been in an enterprise role at the same org for two years, or I want somebody who’s had four plus years of enterprise experience where, you know, if you go dig around out there, there’s a lot of individuals that in 2019 or 2020 were just at a college in an SDR. Now they’ve got enterprise sales on their LinkedIn, and that the enterprise can mean a lot of different things for a lot of different companies based on stage and size, and growth.
Matt Lewers: But at the end of the day, those same candidates now probably aren’t gonna be looked at as heavily as they would’ve like a year ago. And I think people being candidates, a little bit more cognizant of time and seat, will probably benefit them later on because, you know, if you’ve jumped three times in the last year and a half to three years even, that’s gonna start looking bad, especially four to five years from now, maybe. When people kind of forget about the Covid hiccup in the wild run that there was for about a year and a half. it’s not gonna be as, it’s not gonna be as favorable probably so.
Chuck Brotman: Yeah. I mean, it’s a, and perhaps a topic for another round table Krissy, in terms of, you know, the discussion of happiness. I, one thing that’s interesting, I was thinking about when you were going through that, is how often, I mean, there’s a lot of people. would like to suggest that, you know, job seekers today are not looking for long term that like, you know, happiness is the new normal and that, you know, job seekers are treating new roles almost as if they’re freelancers, right?
Chuck Brotman: So they’ll sort of take on the work, you know, along with their side hustles as long as it’s convenient. I’ve been surprised at how often new job seekers continue to tell me that, you know, stability is number one in their list in terms of their next new role. I, you know, and I often, you know, I often have talked about how it’s a mistake to equate stability with a large company because many large companies have, you know, been the least stable places for hires.
Chuck Brotman: You know, the layoffs we’ve seen across big co. But they’ve also impacted small co. And I think that the fact that so much talent is looking, craving stability, going back, Krissy, to your question, And I think it’s a mistake to assume that everybody is just in job hopper mode, right? A lot of people, you know, are, you know, anxious and uncertain about the future, about the economy, about trends in AI that might take away jobs.
Chuck Brotman: And so to the extent that companies can really be thoughtful about their plans, what success will look like, you know, what their burn rates and runway rate look like, you know, not to, again, to make people complacent, but really give them a sense that any hiring that they’re doing right it’s very thoughtful and that it’s with, you know, a midterm long-term orientation.
Chuck Brotman: It’s what talent’s looking for.
More Resources
Podcasts
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We offer multiple services, depending on the needs of our clients. Please reach out to us for more information, and see our GTM recruiting services page for more details.
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What roles do you recruit?
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- Sales: Sales Development, SMB, Commercial, Mid-Market, Enterprise, and Strategic Account Executives
- Account Management
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I've worked with so many headhunters and recruiting firms. What makes you different?
Put simply, we aspire to be as proficient in articulating your business value prop as your internal employees. Exceptional talent does not want to speak with “head-hunters;” instead, they want to connect with educated ambassadors of your business and your brand about meaningful career opportunities.
We go deep on your business and into talent markets to foster connections that other recruiting firms tend to miss. And we work with our hiring clients to ensure excellence in their hiring process. Please reach out to us for more information!
Is SaaS experience important when hiring?
Hmm, what does this mean anyhow?! We recommend defining the skills and behaviors sought before running a search rather than using buzzwords or phrases from other people’s job descriptions. We help employees go beyond acronyms to ensure they develop robust job descriptions that tie to specific candidate profiles for targeting in the market. Need help? Let us know!
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That said, if you believe a given opportunity aligns to your role and company interests, we recommend sending interviewers a follow-up email after every step in the process. This gives you a chance to recap your learnings & enthusiasms briefly and authentically. It also helps you stay top of mind with interviewing companies.
Check out the roundtable discussion our leadership team recently held on the topic of post-interview thank-you notes.
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Make sure you prep before every interview, particularly by reviewing the company website, recent new articles, and the LinkedIn profiles of relevant interviewers and company leaders.
Consider business casual attire - ask your recruiter for any additional guidance. Try to make sure that you are able to sit front and center facing your camera - test it with friends prior to running an interview. If you need to take a call by phone, it’s best to let your recruiter or the hiring manager know in advance, and offer them an option to reschedule if they prefer.
Lastly, prepare some questions in advance based on your research, but do everything you can to stay in the conversation. The more you can listen and be in the moment, the better you’ll execute and be able to vet the opportunity for yourself.
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Despite so much innovation in HR tech and recruiting, hiring remains broken. As former operators with decades of experience hiring GTM talent, we wanted to start our own business dedicated to helping B2B tech companies across a range of industries do a better job at attracting and sourcing tremendous (and diverse) talent.
How do you charge for your services?
We have multiple services packages, depending on the needs of our clients. Please reach out to us for more information, and see our sales recruitment services page for a breakdown of our packages.
Do you recruit outside of the US and Canada?
What roles do you recruit?
- Customer Success: Standard, Senior, and Principal Customer Success Managers, Onboarding Specialists, Implementation Managers, Community, Customer Support, & Solutions Architects
- Marketing: Growth & Demand Generation Marketing, ABM, Events, and Content / SEO Marketing
- Sales: Sales Development, SMB, Commercial, Mid-Market, Enterprise, and Strategic Account Executives
- Account Management
- Revenue Operations and Enablement: Marketing, CS, and Sales Operations
- Solutions Engineering and Post-Sales Solutions Architects
- GTM Leadership: Front-line, second-line, VP, and SVP / C Level placements (CRO, CMO, COO)
I've worked with so many headhunters and recruiting firms. What makes you different?
Put simply, we aspire to be as proficient in articulating your business value prop as your internal employees. Exceptional talent does not want to speak with “head-hunters;” instead, they want to connect with educated ambassadors of your business and your brand about meaningful career opportunities.
We go deep on your business and into talent markets to foster connections that other recruiting firms tend to miss. And we work with our hiring clients to ensure excellence in their hiring process. Please reach out to us for more information!
Is SaaS experience important when hiring?
Hmm, what does this mean anyhow?! We recommend defining the skills and behaviors sought before running a search rather than using buzzwords or phrases from other people’s job descriptions. We help employees go beyond acronyms to ensure they develop robust job descriptions that tie to specific candidate profiles for targeting in the market. Need help? Let us know!