Are Your Reps Ready to Return to Onsites?

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Hello, everyone. This is Chuck Brotman, the host of the talent GTM podcast. I’m here with Leah Cohen in my FM voice lead. Thanks for joining the show. Great to talk to you,

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: So good to meet Chuck. Smooth jazz…

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Bringing it on strong here. So for those who don’t know, Lee, he is based in the San Francisco Bay Area where I am. He is a recognized award winning sales executive with a strong track record hiring mentoring. Scaling successful enterprise teams. He speaks a lot of industry events and as a recurring guest on the LinkedIn sales leadership forum, he recently launched his own business GTM leader, where he offers fractional sales leadership and GTM consulting services for SaaS companies looking for rapid growth.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: And he’s married with two teenagers, one UC Santa Barbara, along with my, younger daughter, Lee, obviously we know each other well, and I’ve. Benefited personally and professionally from that relationship and have learned a lot from you over the years I wonder if we can kick things off if you can tell our listeners a little bit about your narrative And how you got into sales to begin your own career.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Well, I think a lot of times things just happen, out of a situation of need. And in my case, it was all the way in high school. We were, I was part of the high school drama group and we’re putting on a play and our director. came back with some bad news that all of the visions that we had for the performance and the sets and the, how elaborate they were, had to all be cut back because there was no budget to do anything that we wanted to do.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And I, we just had to, she just said, you just sometimes have to eat it. And I didn’t think that was the case. And I thought, well, what if we go sell ads in a program and we can take all that money and put it towards it. And so she said, Hey, that, that could work. So. I went out and I started selling ads and I took it a step further and I just didn’t go to local businesses.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: I went to the ad agencies in town with full presentations and I think they were just so shocked that a high school student would come in and do these presentations. They just start, we all of a sudden went from, instead of, a small local store, we had Pepsi and Coke and hotels and just automobile companies and fast food.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And, and we have big ads that made a lot of money and we not only had enough to do everything for our play, but we also had the best after party ever. So that helped me realize, what sales is really powerful. It can solve a lot of problems when you need it. And that kind of always put me in that direction and why I love this profession.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: That’s awesome. Did it change preconceptions you had of it? Was that were you a bit surprised at how effective you were at it and just how rewarding it was?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: I think throughout time, if you go to people and you talk about sales, in the old days, people used to think of things of their preconception, maybe, automotive sales or car sales, or, solar sales, things that seem more aggressive and that perception of what sales was. But when you, Understand that the profession of sales and what it takes to be a strategic seller or an enterprise seller that works on complex problems that you solve and do that.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: It’s a very different than what say the perception of what, well, he’s in sales, and they’re doing that side of it. So part of it over the years has been shifting that perception. And I think the tech industry and. tech as a whole has really changed that. And just with anything, people start to get to know other people who do this.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: and I see this now, we joke about it. We’re both NBA fans and you see people who are in the NBA. And it’s well, GP2’s father, Gary Payton was, a player. And now GP is a player too, is a player. And I see that in sales a lot too. People in the sales profession, they get exposed to it and then all of a sudden I’m meeting, I’m working with an intern now whose father is a, really successful salesperson out in the industry and now their children are going

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Yep. Yep. And I’ve certainly shared with my children, my passion for it. And, and I can see others doing similarly Going back to this notion taking a little bit of a step back in time. So we met well over 10 years I mean, maybe even 15 years ago at this point, but we both worked at on 24 So we’re here today to talk a little bit about Yeah, onsites and getting ready for the return of onsites in this kind of sort of post COVID world we’re in now, I wanted to take a step back to that, that, that pre COVID world and what was probably the early days of SaaS, certainly my, recollection at the time, so much of.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: The selling that I was doing that I saw others doing in our organization was very remote based. And I recall you were sort of an early advocate for getting out in the field more and, meeting onsite with your customers and prospects. Hey, is that true? Am I, is my recollection correct? And if so, just going back, like, why did you think that was important at that time?

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: And maybe how does that tie, back to your own professional background?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Well, especially as you move up from, say, S&B and more transactional sales, and you move to more complex, upper mid market and enterprise sales, the challenges get larger, the players, you have more people as part of that buying decision, and you’re trying to build an established trust, because it’s not just the sale, it’s what happens after they buy, and they want to know that this person in this organization is going to stand behind the offer.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And when you go in person and you meet them and you not just have a presentation or they’re in person. And I’d always say like just walking from the conference room to the, to the lobby, there’s more that can get done there for establishing trust and understanding where the deal may be. Then what happens when you go, okay, thanks.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And you end the zoom call and that moment there. I heard. Plenty of times with just that 30 seconds, if that’s all the time we had, that I knew that made a difference and gave us a competitive edge over a person who didn’t come in. That’s at a minimum. And the things you can pick up in a room that you can’t pick up on Zoom are, so important.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: The dynamics of what’s happening. So, I was always a believer in building strong relationships, giving yourself that competitive edge. and that’s why I encouraged it at that time. And I know COVID kind of threw that all away and people had to figure out how to do it this way and we did. And this industry didn’t suffer as much as some of the other, industries did.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Yeah. I mean, I would even extend

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: We’re back. We’re back now. Yes.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Yeah. But even for at the time I managing, S and B and mid market teams, certainly in scenarios where, you know, those, my prospects or my team’s prospects were, within driving distance away, even for those smaller organizations where buying was less complicated, the value of being able to meet people in person to ask about like sort of the competitive context and just build relationships.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: I thought it was so valuable and obviously it was easier. Yeah.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And I didn’t mean to minimize it. 

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: No, totally. Yeah.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: expenses and are you getting on a plane and flying somewhere and doing things for that? But you’re a hundred percent right. If people are within, it used to blow me away when I’d walk by, even for, like you said, an S&B or mid market, and I’d see someone at their desk and they’re finishing a call.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: I’m like, don’t they, aren’t they? 30 minutes around the corner and do, yeah, but you know, I, and I’m like, no, go walk over there, bring a box of, specialties, cookies, just do some separate yourself because the side conversation you can have while you’re there with the person is walking out with somebody else who they introduce you to.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: It’s just. That’s what this is about. And that’s sort of a litmus test. And, as we take it farther, this is a concern because after COVID, and I know I may be jumping ahead, but people got out of this habit. This is a muscle. This is like working out and, having a regimen. And right now, people who used to do it are out of practice of these events have started. People are showing back up at events, they’re not comfortable with it. There are offices in certain industries, like financial services are back much more than others. retail, there are not, there are a number of manufacturing, a number of industries are much, have brought people back to the office and you, wanna take advantage and go there and have that experience.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Well, let’s talk more about that because I think I was thinking about this even, my wife, Kathy, she’s, I think this is her third straight day in the office. I mean, they’ve kind of gradually now become more formally hybrid. And this is all, and she’s in the insurance world. This is relatively recent, even though they’ve been back, they’ve maintained their office for some time.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: But you’re seeing, kind of the office now become the place once again, where more work is being done. As you mentioned, you were seeing the return of, conferences, I think over half of our business now as a recruiting companies with companies that are, that are hybrid, and, more centered in the office, we definitely have more business like that than fully remote, but this is all.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: I think developments over the last six months and we’re approaching year four since covid. So I think you make a good point that there’s, there’s a generation or a micro generation of sellers who’ve really come up in a world that was dominated by covid and remote. Where do you see? The biggest gaps may be in readiness of sellers today to go on site and maybe also where do you see some strengths?

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: I mean, how has COVID in some ways made us better prepared to get back in the office as well? If you think there’s some things that we’re better able to do now and what are some of the gaps?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Probably, the gaps become just. In successful office visit requires a lot of planning. You just don’t show up. It’s very much like events. You just don’t, you shouldn’t just show up and be like spec, Oh, the booths here. And, we got some collateral and okay, now I’m just waiting for the people to walk by and decide that there’s a successful event sponsorship experience in person doing that is all about prepping and the same is true for an onsite.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And that’s what, has changed. If you haven’t been doing that regularly, we had, a checklist of things you’re doing ahead of time to make sure you have the right people in the room, you have the right room, you have, you’re getting, and these are some of the, that you’re, doing this in advance, your understanding.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: The timing associated with it. Can you get that room an hour before to ensure you can have access to it to get all the tech set up so you’re not wasting the first 10 minutes of your meeting on I.T. support trying to figure out what? Well, I don’t know why this won’t come on the screen. And there’s 13 people around a laptop trying to figure it out.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And I’m just seeing time burning, So all these things that you’re sort of checklist of, get into that room 30 minutes early, make sure you have all the right cable supplies, bring alternate ones with you. Don’t just bring the one that,You should have all the different, possible HDMI versus, USD, USC, show up with everything.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: There’s nothing worse than that. And, those types of things. And the other part is, Well, one of the things we used to do all the time is like you’re coming in for a meeting. It’s not just 11 to 12 and you’re out. Can you go out to lunch with some folks? Can you schedule a dinner that night?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: It’s for those that can attend. And then all of a sudden you move out of the one hour presentation. And again, what happens during that dinner is so critical and the relationships and things you uncover. And where, why we say that’s critical is it’s critical when the deal starts. Having ups and downs.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: There’s certain people who you establish trust within a relationship with that can help you maneuver that deal during the ups and downs of that side of it. And that’s why you are trying to do more. And I think that’s really hard on a zoom in an hour, Oh, and we’ve gone around the room and you don’t know anything about the people and you haven’t had a moment and you aren’t.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: The zoom is showing you this. It’s not showing you what’s happening in the room over here, which you’re picking up when you’re there. So reschedule like preparing. And what I mean by preparing, it’s okay, so is there an opportunity and you do that way? We’re coming in. We’re coming in. We’re excited to be there and.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And sell the meeting, the dinner or the, night before or day afterwards, show up with a box of goodies. find out from your champion or from the receptionist, what’s the favorite donut place or what’s the favorite place like don’t show up with just a standard national brand. If there’s something really local and cool, it gets everyone excited.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Particularly because they might not be going in the office every day. Right. So that might

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Right. So this is exactly it makes your right. And so I never remember you’re a donut fan and, we would go in Austin, we would get, stop at voodoo donuts, which have the most incredible donuts. And when you show up with these, even if nobody takes a donut in the meeting or eats it or does it guess what that is.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Then you’re carrying it and say, Hey, listen, we want to give this to the team and you’re holding the box and they bring you back to the team and all of a sudden you’re there for Hannah, the donut guy at the meeting and meeting other people and doing things in the kitchen and other sides like that.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: So everything, is authentic, because this is who you want to be. You want to be a person who brings, you don’t show up empty handed at a dinner or an event. You shouldn’t show up empty handed to a presentation. So it’s just authentically who you are. But putting a little effort in to stand out and find something that’s unique.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Like we’ve had meetings and someone will put out, “Hey, there’s voodoo donuts in the meeting.” All of a sudden four people show up who were, we’re, so all of a sudden we’re there, or doing something.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: There’s also a lot on, on, on the subject of planning. I mean, I can remember going with a rep to New York and we had to get uptown to downtown in, 15 minutes ’cause we hadn’t thought through, commute time. it’s also important to, really be thoughtful about knowing where you need to be, how you’re gonna get from one location to the next. Understanding traffic conditions, like things like that as well. Would you agree?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Definitely. I think you can’t. You, everything needs to be on the early side and, cause guess what? The 30 minutes you have that you’re early are just extra prep and strategy time. There’s nothing worse to your point, like trying to run through a subway or getting stuck in an Uber in awful New York traffic or somewhere else and doing that.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: So yeah, just any of those moments, it’s you just plan that it’s. 30 minutes early or an hour early and be sitting in the lobby again, sitting in the lobby. We’ve been in lobbies before and the, the decision maker to, two levels above is walking by and doing it. And it’s an opportunity to have a conversation that you might not have. These are all, there’s not no negative of the more time you can spend in that office, the better it is.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: I know. At on 24 other companies where I’ve worked, I move generally had guidelines and rules that, you don’t get on a plane for, a 10, 000 deal, right? You have to have a certain amount of opportunity to justify the cost of traveling. And I think mean, you’ve talked about this, that I feel like pre COVID.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: It could be a little cheesy, particularly if said in elegantly to run a campaign in region saying, Hey, I’m going to be in Cleveland with, with my CEO would love to stop by. But I wonder if there’s something to be said for those kinds of tactics. And maybe more elegantly said, but in today’s day and age that when you are in a region, what are some ways you recommend if you have an important anchor meeting, but you’re getting on a plane, there’s company expenses involved.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: What are some ways that reps can leverage, a meeting or two in a location to go get more meetings? Do you have any recommendations or

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Yeah, I think you’re right. And I don’t think it’s a tactic. It should actually be a requirement for yourself. It’s not. Yes, the company expenses. That’s, that should also be a top consideration, but the top consideration is your own time to you’re getting on a plane. You’re going to a place. Why would you only want to have 1 meeting?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: So we used to have a requirement that you need 3 meetings in a 3 face to faces in order to justify the, the travel in the trip. Okay. And by having that, it was amazing. And yeah, people would send a note with the dates they were going to be there and say, I’m going to be over at VMware and you’re, two buildings over, can we come over after we’re, seeing our clients at VMware, can we come over to bizarre voice, and yet they were right in the same place and doing, Oh, sure. You were right there. Let’s do that. And. And then before you know it, you’ve then do that. And then you get to somebody else, and I’m using Dallas examples because boy, you have to be careful back to your point of travel. you really want to think about timing and in between because you hope your meeting runs 30 minutes long or 45.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: There’s nothing greater shame than the person wanting to spend more time with you. And you’re like, ah, I got to go because I’ve got to drive, now 45 minutes across town. So really. Finding those right buffers, doing that. But to your point, it’s for yourself. It’s not even for the company. Your time’s valuable.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: You should have three meetings as a minimum. If you get on a plane and you’re going to a location, prospecting, doing that, immediately work to what you’re saying, Hey, I’m going to be there from this day, would love to see you too. What can we do to come in and do that side?

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Yeah.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: The other part, because I’ll lose that concept. Is, events. So oftentimes they may not be coming into their own offices and they’re spread out, but they all will be at Dreamforce because companies are now using these events or they themselves have a QBR and they’re, that’s how companies I’m seeing more and more using their QBRs as a way to do an offsite to bring all these remote people together.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: So though. I’m going to be at Scottsdale doing a QBR and they’re all going to be there. The S those companies are faced with challenges too, that they, their budgets, because they’re spending so much on that, they don’t have hospitality options and budgets for hospitality. So one of the things with one of my clients is we offer to host the happy hour for the QBR for the team at the lobby bar in the hotel of the area.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: That’s there that opportunity to be with a couple exec, bring your team and host that happy hour for their entire team. But you obviously have your specific people. You’re looking to talk as much appreciated and they will do that. So thinking in terms of, so if you’re a rep and you’re like, wow, my company is fully remote and they’re, yeah, well, where are they getting together and you do that more than just their annual

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Right. just thinking a lot from what you’ve shared, understanding how remote teams get together, when, for what purposes, how frequently, I mean, in many cases, that’s probably a really important discovery question to build in your sales process, not only for the specifics of what you sell, but maybe for thinking ahead.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: For the particular for like enterprise sellers for finding those opportunities where you can be a part of an onsite, whether it’s providing the sort of help you’re describing or just understanding that when they do get together that they’re going to want to get. more value out of those meetings and perhaps, meeting with vendors such as yourself could be like more strategically important for them than it might have been in years past when being together was kind of taken for granted.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Right?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Right. And that’s a normal conversation. If you think about it. You’re talking to someone and they’re remote. Oh, what’s going on at your company? Are they remote because you’re thinking ahead like how are we gonna get everyone together with those next time? Oh, yeah, everybody else is at the headquarters. I happen to live in Idaho.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Okay. Okay good to know or no We’re a fully remote company. Oh, do you ever get yeah, like how often do you guys get together as a team? That’s just a normal Conversation. It doesn’t even have to be so calculated, but yes, it should be part of your mind to go there. And then what you’re learning to your point, when are those opportunities as this deal moves forward?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Or as you want to get in front of more decision makers, can you do that in person with them?

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Yep. So we’ve talked about planning. Are there any other sort of. pitfalls or just gaps that you’ve seen in sellers who maybe have, have less experience in the pre COVID world that, that should be addressed or thought through it as part of an onsite strategy. I mean, things like maybe like how you think about and dressing professional. I don’t know if that’s too tactical or basic, but what else are you seeing? What else needs to be thought through? and it’s important if you want to, be more effective in onsites. Right,

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Again, everything relative to the organization and doing that, but you always want to be on the, obviously on the more,you want to be dressed nicer than the other folks as you’re coming in and doing that. And it is, as leaders, we always wore the jackets on site and doing that.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: It’s a sign of respect and to their organization and doing that side of it. It’s just. Who you are, but it’s got to be there. Some people, I certainly have been with CEOs who their brand and their messages, hoodies and what they do. And that’s what, that’s who their brand and what they, who they are.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: But so you have to stay true to your brand, so I think that’s sort of one of the basics, that should just be a reminder. We think of those all as, something you just do, but to your point, there are people who are new, who might be new to sales and haven’t been there and doing that.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: I think as a whole, the, those new to sales are very comfortable in the digital medium and very comfortable, In this approach, and they aren’t as comfortable in the in person, and I’ve seen that at the events, I’ve seen, they’re standing in a circle talking to each other while there’s people walking by, because I don’t want to bother them.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: If they’re interested, they’ll come over, and that’s not really… That’s not the approach you have to take on site at an event at a booth that you’ve spent a quarter million dollars on. You’re going to have to be a little more engaging and bring people in and get engaged in your booth and doing that side of it.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: The same is true. Is that the meetings and events? I’m always blown away. And you see this. on video calls to there when they’re waiting for people to come into a room, I see people just sitting there doing their from the sales org side is there to pick working on other stuff. I’m like, no, there’s three people in a room like Bill.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Talk to them, stand up, walk over, build a relation. Don’t let them just sit on their email. Well, we’re waiting for other people. Okay. And everyone just sits there typing away and quiet. It’s that’s such a missed opportunity. And the, so you, those types are like, you have to be turned that moment into, just that building relationships and trust.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Right. No, all great call outs. I felt the zoom generation. I mean, they can look front and center and in the cameras that they’re know how to be professional within the frame. But there’s, so much else to being effective on site. And, I mean, I’ve never been, someone who’s, love doing events by nature.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: But when I’ve been at events over the last couple of years, I’m just struck by how much opportunity there is there and just how important it is for me, as a small business owner in this case, but to take advantage of these opportunities and meet people. And so, and I think, just repeating a lot of what you’re saying, but as, we get back out to events, to offices, et cetera, and you get these opportunities, it’s so important to come prepared and, and to make the most of it.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Maybe as a recruiter and close up this discussion, I’d love to kind of get your thoughts on, on hiring sales professionals in a world where we are getting back on site and maybe it’s simply a matter of look. It’s not that complicated, like you’re hiring profile really hasn’t changed that much.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: You just want to make sure that you’ve got coaching and best practices for your reps to, to plan well to learn from these experiences and to be more effective. In the field, but are there certain things that you would recommend to VPs and hiring leaders to maybe think a little bit more about in hiring, whether it’s for enterprise sellers in this, post COVID world or just in general, like if you’re planning on having folks more involved in physical events and in the offices, what are some things you might, assess more for in terms of competencies and skills?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: I look for the activities that they were involved in more than what they’re.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Interesting.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Oh, they graduated and they did. So you’ll know about how social they were. Oh, I was on the, at my club in, at school, I was part of the recruitment process. Oh, well, tell me more about that. Oh yeah, we had tables out on the center forum and when people walk by, we had to convince them to join our charcuterie club and I was like, wow, that you, that took a lot of selling to get,

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: All right.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Compete against others and you got them into the charcuterie club. See where I’m going. They are in that role or that activity, you were very, you had to put yourself out there. You had to essentially cold call in a very public environment. A person who might be part of a side organization or their job, call called for them to do that type of even as something, you’re in the, the Ferry building here and in San Francisco, where there’s a lot of.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: People have olive oil things and there are people out with trays talking to people and trying to get them to sample and come in and Sam at farm, at farmer’s markets. That’s the kind of engagement with strangers that are walking by, making people feel comfortable, presenting a value proposition, bringing them in, closing a sale.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: That’s the. That will be a person who has the attributes to be successful for on sites and at events and doing so.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Here’s the thought, by the way, should companies be thinking more seriously about ensuring there’s a face to face meeting before hiring somebody that maybe that, a 30 60 or role play gets done on site. Because I remember again, pre COVID even companies that had multiple offices or hired remote.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: I mean, I did a lot of that. I would very rarely hire somebody before physically meeting them. We’d fly them out. I think that doesn’t happen as often now. I mean, should, is that something that, that company should get back to doing before making hiring decisions? make sure you meet that person in person.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Yes. Oh, yeah, I certainly think you’re going to be able to fill, find have that feeling more than you might in a 30 minute Zoom. You’re certainly going to feel the handshake. How many times was there just a weak, wet handshake that you went? Whoa, they’re gonna have to really turn this around now. Where’s the handshake test?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Using that as an example, but you get what I mean. Those are, that was a bare minimum when you met, at an office or you did something. So I, think we will see that. And as a recruiter, I think that’d be an interesting topic to bring that back.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Ideally, maybe even a lookwhat are the retention rates of people you interviewed in person versus people who were done fully on Zoom.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Right. Particularly, I think at the tail end of your process. I, I think early on, I, we always coach to be where the, people can be nervous and that’s totally fine. And, obviously depending on the role,you wanna be, open and consistent, give people the opportunity to learn and to, show their skills in the process.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: But I’m just thinking out loud, but before you, you make that final offer and just given that companies, aren’t hiring in droves like they were in the past, like hiring decisions are being made more thoughtfully, which is. Of course, makes a ton of sense. It should always be that way.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: But I’m almost thinking that it’s, let’s get back to the assumptions we had pre COVID, right. That, it’s more exception to the rule to actually hire somebody off physically meeting them. Right. And making sure that you see, kind of their skills and action in the same physical location.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Right.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Right. And we would often have sort of a happy hour for some of the candidate, final candidates, and they had an opportunity to meet and grow. And then you’d be meet other people from other departments, from other areas, and you see how they interact within the organization. So I agree. I think when you used to look at things. It was a pretty much the case, even it was initial screens on Zoom. But then the finals were almost always there. And even though people aren’t hiring in droves anymore, you have the case where people are challenged with efficient growth right now. So they might even be questioning the expense of flying three candidates and putting them in at three hotels.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Cause that’s another factor you bring someone in and you really want them. Are you putting them at a budget hotel doesn’t mean you’re putting him at the St. Regis, but are you putting him, you got to put him at a decent place. And all of a sudden, now you’re talking about that budgeting an additional 10, 000, depending where you’re flying people in, where they’re going.
Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: And then I just was talking to another folks who they had an issue where they couldn’t. Fly everyone in. So then they decided not to fly anyone in sitting to level the playing field. I’m like,
Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Makes sense.
Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: You didn’t want to fly one person and you’re now, taking a risk on your whole process, but what the cost of bringing three people in because someone was particularly far made it, cost prohibitive for what they had in the budget. And, these are some definitely some questions that need to be considered.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Right.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Although, I would hope three versus one if you’re really serious about hiring. there shouldn’t be a budget breaker. And perhaps having that requirement that your finalists come on site is a way to force companies to be serious about Running a good hiring process, right? You shouldn’t have 10 people making the final stages, but it also shouldn’t be a situation where, nobody’s getting there because you keep changing requirements or your, what you’re looking for just isn’t out there.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Could almost be, I guess, a forcing function to run a great process and maybe some of the companies you’ve got me thinking about this as something that maybe we should start recommending more to our clients, but, maybe in closing out Lee, I love it. If you could share with our listeners what you’re up to today.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: You’ve started your own business. You offer fractional leadership and consulting. What are some of the services that you’re providing for your clients? And maybe where do some of the things that we’ve discussed, fit into your services set?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Certainly. Well, one of the areas that I’ve noticed needs for in the organizations, you have a number of startups that are moving from a more transactional S&B, maybe lower mid market, and now they’re moving up to a upper mid market enterprise. And I think a lot of companies will often say, Oh my God, we got to go enterprise.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: We got to get enterprise. Well, Comes with a lot. There are a lot of, your go to market strategy is completely different, the people you hire are different, your sales messaging is different, it’s not the same as just, and so their organizations, one of the things I’ve done is developed a, a go to market playbook for enterprise sales.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: So you want to go to enterprise here are the things you need to, consider do implement and, help organizations do that.exponentially, because you’ve got to, people want to see results. And guess what? That, that sales cycle in enterprises, Chuck is much longer than transaction.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: So it’s managing that expectation to know that sales rep you pick up and what you do is going to be much longer. that’s been one one we talked about. I have, also a playbook for events for people. It’s to help companies get their ROI. They’re spending 100, on events. And here’s the opportunity to, make sure you get your ROI on that event.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: So it’s a playbook for how sales can make sure what we talked about ahead of time. What are all the things you need to do to make sure you have 60 to 70 percent of your meetings prebooked at the events doing that side of it. So that’s been really popular.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: That’s all for those interested in your events and enterprise playbooks. What’s the best way to connect with you?

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: Thank you. lee@gtmleader.Com that easily at GTM leader. com or Rachel Chuck, since you know him and he’ll do the intro, but it’s been so good to chat with you today. Chuck.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: Yeah. Lee, I really appreciate you coming on, the podcast. Thanks so much. A lot of just crazy good advice you’ve shared with our listeners and I appreciate you taking the time to join the show.

Lee Hacohen, Regie.ai: All right. Talk later. Bye.

Chuck Brotman, Blueprint: All right. Bye.