Is a Masters Degree Valuable After Having Work History?

Chuck Brotman: Good morning everyone. So today we’re here to talk about education, which I think has been a topic off and on in business and sales circles for some time. I think we’ve all seen a lot of, big headline news of late where some really large, reputable tech companies have drop requirements for even having a bachelor’s degree to be considered for, individual contributor, even entry level roles and, five, 10 years ago, the assumption was that to be, have any opportunity to enter any of these companies, a BA was a must.

Chuck Brotman: I’m, I’m personally supportive of relaxing education requirements, and I feel like one of the things I’ve seen over the years is there’s not necessarily a correlation between the degree someone has and their ability to execute any given role. Writing communication skills can be developed in a lot of different contexts, but moving from discussions on the value of a BA, we’re here today to talk about the value of MBAs.

Chuck Brotman: I think at least one of us is, is married to someone who just, just got an MBA. Congratulations to your husband, Krissy, on that front. But the question for you all is, and you, we’ve all talked to job seekers as well, who’ve asked us about, what we’ve seen in our capacity as managers. How does having an MBA impact one’s ability to execute in sales and go to market roles in a business. Are, are you all seeing that MBAs, correlate with higher level of, of skills with faster promotion tracks with better abilities to analyze data? Curious what you’re all seeing in terms of the value of an MBA in kind of the B2B Tech role in general, but specific for the kind of go-to-market roles that we’ve helped hire for and support? Matt, you wanna go first?

Matt Lewers: I think the short answer is for entry and mid-level positions. I don’t see any correlation between having an MBA. and getting a stronger look from hiring managers or having an MBA and being able to negotiate, negotiate a compensation package higher. I also think similarly for someone that’s still in like an IC or first line leadership role. I just, I’m not seeing MBA as a requirement.

Matt Lewers: I mean, it’s gonna be a requirement for some C-level folks or very specific non go-to-market motion roles that we can all appreciate. But I think for the average candidate in an individual contributor role, an MBA is always a nice to have, but correlation between the cost and the time spent to get the MBA, I don’t see in my limited scope on a day-to-day basis that that equates to higher earnings, especially early mid-stage career individuals.

Matt Lewers: I was speaking with a presales engineer for a SaaS startup, and they’re considering going back and getting their MBA, so we had a deep conversation about it. And, his company’s willing to, to pay roughly like 50% of it. So for him, it’s a great set of skills.

Matt Lewers: He can learn personally while he goes and gets his MBA, but it’s not guaranteed to get him a promotion at work. It’s not guaranteed to move him to the next comp tier. It’s not guaranteed to accelerate his ability to move into another leadership role. So, we kind of talked through the, the pros and cons of that, and that’s how this topic came to be.

Matt Lewers: So we settled on it’s great experience for him personally and longer term, it may open a door somewhere, but it will not near term increase comp or acceleration. From a promotion standpoint, if anything, it’s gonna make his life more stressful, right? As he’s now trying to balance a full-time job, a budding family, and now going and getting his master.

Matt Lewers: So the short answer for me is no, especially in today’s market, from where I sit, I don’t see a correlation between getting your MBA or having an MBA
Chuck Brotman: Matt. In your capacity as a recruiter, do you typically call out if a candidate has account executive role or a corporate AE role.

Matt Lewers: If the industry’s related, like if we’re doing something in MarTech and somebody’s got a master’s in, in some level of marketing, like international marketing or international business, then then I will, if there’s correlation between industry vertical, but if it’s just a master’s of a BA and they’re applying for. Any sales role? I typically don’t call it out. I, most, most individuals have MBA in their title somewhere on LinkedIn or on the resume. So there’s really no need to flag it out. Even when I see individuals with an MBA and they’re applying for very entry level roles, for me, it doesn’t swing the needle in the least.

Matt Lewers: I would rather have somebody who’s got two years of actual. Sales or customer success experience over an MBA? Personally, I think that’s our clients want somebody that’s had real world experience for most level or or more junior positions than somebody who spent an extra two to four years getting an MBA, but doesn’t have the practical, real world experience.

Chuck Brotman: Yeah. Krissy, I have thoughts on that, but turning over to you, what, what’s your point of view on this?

Krissy Manzano: So, I don’t think there’s like a black or white answer here. Right? I think it depends on even, let’s like even talk about, like, let’s get like a little bit more specific and talk about like our, like the tech industry, right? And sales and that matter. So my husband. Yes. Four weeks left, probably, two or one once this actually publishes.

Krissy Manzano: Thank, thank you Lord. But it, so there’s two things. One, I think anyone considering their MBA, if you do it, the one piece of advice I would give just living with someone who’s getting it, is that and also having friends that have gotten it. If you have this expectation that that means you beat out other people for jobs or you get paid more than other people, you are going to be disappointed. And I’ve, I’ve watched people like, how did you get that job? And you’re getting this like, I spent, and it’s like, I don’t know who told you that, but like that’s not the way that it works today in most, in like just every case. And I think there might’ve been a time I can’t even speak to that ’cause I don’t think I was working fully then, or if it was very new to the industry.

Krissy Manzano: I wasn’t hiring people where that mattered more, but I would remove those expectations. Now, I think even in sales or business, an MBA can help you depending on where you are at and your company. So for example, there is, it’s not a huge portion, but my husband’s company does pay for some of his MBA, which means that he is known at the organization for getting it, right.

Krissy Manzano: And anyone who has gotten an MBA, especially, not like after college, but like where you’re working full-time, let alone if you have a family. Like there’s just a level of respect there that is like, Holy shit. That’s a lot of work, right? Like we’re in year three because we couldn’t do two years with both of us working full-time with two little kids. It would’ve like destroyed us. So I think that it gives people, like you get a little bit more of an eye on you in that sense from your company. And they’re investing in you, so they are gonna be a little bit more from what I’ve seen, this is not everywhere, but like at that other company is 50%, they’re probably gonna be more inclined.

Krissy Manzano: Like, we invested that in you and we now wanna raise you up. So I think that’s where an MBA can be really valuable in the business world. Sales, post-sales, whatever it is, is if your company is paying for some of it, they wanna get a return on that investment and level you up a lot of the times. And they also, you get noticed like, there are things that my husband is getting noticed for and that I think it might’ve been more challenging, or he might’ve been looked over without that because it brought people to him to have conversations that I’m not sure would’ve happened. So I think that’s a benefit. But the second thing is, is I think those are the benefits. Now, going back to Matt’s point, like I don’t, I don’t know that you, like if you have working experience, I don’t know that you’re gonna like learn so much more from an MBA.

Krissy Manzano: Like, okay, now I’m just like ready to be an executive. I think it does help with like, I will say like, it, it helps give you a better understanding of just how economics work, because no one really paid attention to that intensely in school, or a lot of people, I should say. And so you get a better understanding of like all the positions of like financial, then economics of business and just in general.

Krissy Manzano: And then also get in, like helping people become more influential in driving those conversations. So I think those are like the biggest takeaways that won’t necessarily come from you having MBA in your resume, but will come from pushing you outside of your comfort zone to ask for that help. And I think my husband is somewhat like, we’re very different.

Krissy Manzano: I always say like I’m the biggest cheerleader, so like I don’t need anyone to cheer for me. I’ll cheer for myself all day. He is not, and so these things push him to be his own cheerleader. So I think from what I’ve seen in my, again, limited view, that’s where I think an MBA is valuable now.

Krissy Manzano: And when I see people have an MBA I like it. I do look at it a little bit differently ’cause I know how hard it is. Just again, having gone through it, supporting someone, right? And seeing like all the late nights, but at the highest level, I think. It depends and it, those are some areas that I’ve seen where it can be helpful, but you still have to be strategic.

Krissy Manzano: Just ’cause you go and get your MBA doesn’t mean like there’s this blanket, you get paid more. You, if it comes between you and another candidate, you are gonna be the candidate. In fact, sometimes people can have biases for MBAs when applying to new jobs. They can be like, they’re gonna want a ton of money because everyone knows how expensive it is to get a BA. So that’s my thoughts.

Chuck Brotman: Actually, your last thought kind of segues into how I want to close this one out. I’ll share a little bit of a story. Just kinda my, my point of view, and this is partly shaped by my experiences, so I don’t have, I don’t have an MBA, and I haven’t studied business in a college setting at all, but I do have a doctorate history, which was, prior career path, path plan of mine going back many years.

Chuck Brotman: And, my experience, as someone who, who has an advanced degree in, in, in the business world, I actually found that to be often more of an impediment to being successful and to getting new opportunities than it’s something that, that helped me. And I remember explaining to my mom that, kind of PhDs were sort of more a subject of like ridicule and mockery than, than, of like advanced, thinking or writing skills.

Chuck Brotman: Right. And so, and that’s unfortunate, right? I think, it was a lot of, it was a lot of work and contribution to my discipline, and I’m proud of the work that I did. Now, do I think it, it should give me a leg up another candidates for GTM roles? Absolutely not. I mean, it, it’s v it was a very different line of work or line of inquiry, however you wanna refer to it. But I think it did highlight and, and hone some skills around thinking and running research and learning how to present to others. So, I think there’s a way to, from an interviewing perspective, there’s a way to be open and curious about backgrounds that can range from, GEDs or PhDs, right?

Chuck Brotman: And really staying focused on what are the skills and behaviors that you need and giving candidates latitude and discretion to show that. And I’ll point to where I actually developed that appreciation myself, goes back to my time in graduate school. I had an opportunity to, to archive the papers of a famous historian at the university who had passed away before I started.

Chuck Brotman: And he had correspondence. He was sort of a, a public figure and he had correspondence that went back many decades. And my job as archivist was to organize all of his papers, including letters that he received from, from his readers and back in the day, like a lot of, a lot of people who were more well read than they are today, including people who did not have college degrees, and I remember just being struck by the quality of the writing and the thoughtfulness of these letters that were coming from moms and young people who, were either still in school or retired and did not have degrees, and often mention that in the letters and thinking, I wish I could write, half as good as these people. Right? And so that’s probably another topic altogether on kind the decline of writing and thinking skills in our society.

Chuck Brotman: But I do remember for me it was eye-opening to see examples of how people from different backgrounds and different social classes communicated and thought. And really made me appreciate that there was a certain level of, of privilege that afforded me that opportunity to go to graduate school that did not necessarily correspond with my own skills.
Chuck Brotman: So keep an open mind would be my guidance, but I thought that was a great conversation. Krissy, congrats to your husband on being almost done with that, that master’s degree and, appreciate y’all coming on our show.

Krissy Manzano: Thanks you all.

Chuck Brotman: Bye everyone.