Sharing Layoffs on social media – is it professional?

Krissy Manzano: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Blueprint Roundtable. Today’s question, are you, candidate, prepping properly for an interview? Are you getting ready in the right way?

Chuck Brotman: In general, no. So if we’re speaking to sales and marketing and customer success job seekers going into 2024 based on my experiences in 2023, I would say there is room for improvement from the vast majority of job seekers. And the main thing that I have been seeing is not enough time being spent on learning.

Chuck Brotman: A company’s value proposition. And by that, I mean, what does the company you’re interviewing with do. does it matter? And what are the outcomes they claim to be delivering to their customers? If you have a point of view on those three things, a you’re going to be better prepared. You’re gonna be able to have a stronger conversation.

Chuck Brotman: You’re gonna have a foundation for then doing more preparation and being ready to speak about the organization, the people, the culture, all of that. And then yeah. And third, you’re also going to be better prepared to potentially leapfrog candidates that have, more industry experience than you, but don’t have a point of view on the value prop of why it matters.

Chuck Brotman: So I know this has been my hobby horse for some time, but this is an area I consistently see job seekers. Falling short and if you’re listening and saying this is, the Chuck Brotman hobby horse, what I can tell you is that I have seen without question that, our best clients, respond well to candidates who are preparing that front.

Chuck Brotman: And I am seeing firsthand those candidates, particularly when they’re. My candidates, since I participate in the recruiting process, they do better and they’re, more likely to get offers. So if you want to prepare better for jobs, in my opinion, 2024, learn the value prop, learn what the business does, use tools to help you do that.

Chuck Brotman: But you should have that ready to go before your first interview.

Matt Lewers: I agree. I think in, we’re, the pendulum has shifted from a couple years ago where the great resignation, where candidates had the majority of power, I think that’s shifted more strongly back towards the, employer, over potential employees. So I think they’re, expecting more across the board at all levels of the interview, whether it’s the first screen with a hiring manager or it’s the final call with the CEO if it’s a smaller organization, I, do think there needs to be more diligence and prep from a candidate’s perspective than there was previously. And I think there are tools out there, Chuck. I think, any AI tool that can help you run a quick synopsis on what an organization does, what their industry entails, where their value brought within that industry lies can save you a lot of, heartache and work. And a lot of these companies will, have their own either YouTube channel or case studies or there’s, a lot of other resources that you can find. It just takes an extra five or ten minutes of digging. And then you can, learn specific elements or facts or stats that you can bring into the interview process that again will make you stand out over other candidates.

Matt Lewers: The other area I think is an under leveraged opportunity for a lot of individuals is to just lean on the recruiter, whether it’s third party or if it’s an internal individual, even if it’s just somebody who’s scheduling the interviews, if you don’t know what the skills or the assessments you’re being assessed for, you don’t know what the outcomes are looking for from that step of the interview process, you need to ask those questions early and often don’t just pray that you’re going to get the last 10 minutes of an interview to ask a bunch of questions. And even if you do, you shouldn’t be asking, what are the next steps from here? You should know all of them going into the interview process, but a lot of times it just. Thanks for asking some additional questions. You’re never going to be overbearing, especially if you come across from genuine curiosity, right?

Matt Lewers: Like, Hey, I’m meeting with Krissy. I’m meeting with Chuck tomorrow. Really appreciate you setting that up. Out of curiosity, “What are the skills or assessments that Chuck is, evaluating for? I want to make sure it’s a good use of both of our times, right?” Like, both people have skin in the game. I mean, that, that’s an expensive one hour meeting for a hiring manager who has a team of 10 at end of quarter, end of year.

Matt Lewers: They could be helping close deals or move pipeline forward, right? So I think just being proactive and, getting as many of those questions answered ahead of each call that you can. I don’t see a lot of candidates doing that. And again, if it can put you in favor of 1 percent over the next candidate in today’s world, if you do that across five steps, there’s five points that you have that somebody else doesn’t, right?

Chuck Brotman: Yep. No, I think, Matt, that’s a great addition. And I would add that to my list too that in 2024, do a better job of preparing for the persona you’re speaking to. And that often means the recruiter when you’re preparing for the recruiter, think about how you can gain insights into the process. You still have to come prepared to obviously.

Chuck Brotman: Win them over to be supportive of your candidates, move things forward. You still have to know the value prop and, and if anything, this should, be sort of grounds to take that process more seriously. But good recruiters can give you a lot of insights so that you can further that if this opportunity is a good fit for you and then do better in the process.

Chuck Brotman: I think that’s a great addition. Krissy, before we go back to you, can I ask Matt a question about what he shared?

Krissy Manzano: Yeah.

Chuck Brotman: I was curious that you talked about the pendulum switching. I totally agree. I would argue that when the pendulum swings back to being a candidates market that we will still see companies indexing more for folks who have better levels of preparation on the business.

Chuck Brotman: And that if anything, this will open up the doors even more widely for those with potential over category experience. So I think this guidance applies in any market. Do you agree?

Matt Lewers: Yeah, I do. I think it’s something that if we said 10 years ago would still apply, right? Except maybe there weren’t AI tools to use. i do think this is tried and true guidance. I do think it, it’ll help no matter what. But specifically in today’s market where, there’s probably a higher, I don’t, it’d be great to have the stats on the industry as a whole, but I would be willing to bet there’s a much higher rejection rate for candidates and probably almost every stage of an interview process than there were from post pandemic up until recently.

Matt Lewers: So I think it’s more important now than ever, but it will continue to be something that is relevant for anybody. And I, I don’t see a world in which that ever goes away.

Krissy Manzano: One, one final question or thought here, does it, I know we talk about like companies wanting that, right? And what candidates can do to try to prep themselves. Why do companies care now as so much versus before where you could, if you have someone with an incredible track record, it’s proven you can talk to them and kind of hear those skills and behaviors really confirming that, that background that they can’t, they didn’t prep in this way that we’re talking about to really understand the org.

Krissy Manzano: Like, does it, why does it matter now? Like, is it, are people thinking it’s going to actually give them like better performers? Just curious y’all’s thoughts

Matt Lewers: Yeah, I can hop in. Firstly, at the highest level, and I know we’ve talked about this before, there’s a greater, a greater push to find people that have industry or at a minimum, like adjacent industry and persona experience now, because organizations, for the most part, maybe peel back some of their hiring goals.

Matt Lewers: And so they can’t afford to take a chance. And so one of the ways they mitigate risk from an employer side is finding somebody who has experience either in the direct space or selling to similar personas, selling an adjacent technology or services. And I, my perception, at least, and Chuck will got check me if I’m wrong, but my perception is when candidates if they don’t have that specific industry experience or relevant experience, right? In this case, if a candidate can come and say, here’s what I understand about your, vertical, your industry, here’s what I understand about your value prop. And here’s where I understand you either have gaps against your competitors or where I’ve researched and seen you guys stand, head and shoulders above all of those things will show hiring manager. A, you’re a quick learner. You’re curious because you went ahead and learned. You’re a, you’re more well prepared than candidates that don’t take this advice and that’s not something that you should ever, you should never hope to glean that from an interview process.

Matt Lewers: You should hope to have your assumptions reaffirmed throughout the interview process. But if you don’t go bother to kind of do some of that research on the front end, then you’re not going to prove to that hiring manager that you have what it takes to make it selling to their personas in their, space.

Chuck Brotman: I think that was perfectly said. Yeah. I mean, it’s look, there’s, more information than ever before about companies. You’ve mentioned AI. it is not unreasonable to expect that candidates should do their research and come prepared to have an intelligent conversation on your business and what you’re doing.

Chuck Brotman: And that should form the basis for their questions, their engagement, how they share a narrative of why they want to pursue the opportunity if they don’t have a perspective there, that’s, thoughtful and informed by research. That’s a yellow flag and often is a red flag. And I, I’ve often argued on our prior episodes and elsewhere that it’s stupid to have, like a litmus test to land an interview.

Chuck Brotman: Like, I don’t believe people should be asked to like, pitch a hiring manager and, and flatter people to win the right to have an interview. Yeah. interviewing is a two way street and your company should do their best to find people that have, the skills and behaviors and, resource given in that initial at that.

Chuck Brotman: But boy, once you have that interview, that’s when things to me change considerably. And if you don’t come prepared in this sense, like, you shouldn’t expect you’re gonna advance not with the best companies. The best. We’ve seen this in our client base, right? Our best clients are the ones who are pretty rigorous about this because those are best clients also have a ton of information and coverage out there.

Chuck Brotman: So they know it’s out there. And so they have a high standard here. And they’re also, I think, really good about not conflating this with flattery. That’s where I think my last thing I’ll say, and this is a lot of candidates get things wrong when they think it’s about like talking about a company being a rocket ship or, seeing on rep view, they have a lot of reps that like that.

Chuck Brotman: Just when I hear that, it’s like, it’s just table stakes. Like, like, who really cares? Like, that’s not telling me about, what you really find exciting. And it certainly doesn’t persuade me if you’re just excited by, Attainment numbers that you’re going to be there if the market gets more challenging next year, right?

Chuck Brotman: So it’s about a lot more than simply knowing how many reps hit quota last year, right? It’s really being able to show you understand the business, dynamics, how they’re delighting their customers, why they’re delighting their customers, where competitive threats might come from, all of that,

Matt Lewers: Yep.

Krissy Manzano: Yeah.

Krissy Manzano: no, I agree. Great discussion. Hopefully this is helpful for some people. I think it’s literally where we are and where we’re going to be going for the foreseeable future, definitely next year. So definitely look to prep a little bit different and understand that value prop, and honestly, it might change why you’re excited about that company.

Krissy Manzano: And it should, if you really understand what they’re doing. So until next time, we’ll see you later.

Matt Lewers: See you

Chuck Brotman: Bye everyone.